02 06 2009, 05 04 AM califantastic 332 posts, read 1,013,461 times Reputation 214 Why do so many Europeans smoke cigarettes?

Why do so many Europeans smoke cigarettes?

Whenever I travel in Europe I am always amazed by the extremely high percentage of Europeans that smoke cigarettes. This seems strange to me considering that people in Europe tend to be better educated and more affluent that people in many other parts of the world. I would think that the more educated and affluent a person is the less likely they would be to smoke. But this is clearly not the case in Europe.

A couple explanations I thought of Herd behavior (people in Europe smoke because everyone else does), Europeans do not care as much about their health, they are more concerned with enjoying themselves than living a long healthy life.

If you have any opinion or insights into why such a high percentage of Europeans smoke please let me know your thoughts.
02 06 2009, 06 20 AM pigeonhole 3,558 posts, read 4,391,326 times Reputation 2074 Why do so many Europeans smoke cigarettes ?

Because they are STUPID

(from an European who doesn’t smoke cigarettes, only reefers in my salad days…) 02 06 2009, 07 01 AM Scotslass Location Axarquнa, Andalucнa, Spain 2,946 posts, read 4,550,152 times Reputation 1646 As Europe is a continent it depends which country you go to rather than “tarring the whole continent with the same brush” Spain, Italy, France has alot of smokers compared to here.

But you’ll find that not everyone smokes. I myself am disgusted by smoking and would never ever try it. 02 06 2009, 09 01 AM acrylic Location AZ 1,379 posts, read 2,303,392 times Reputation 620 Lots of people in former Yugoslavia smoke. It’s quite saddening. I’ve told a couple of them about how bad it is, and they get so mad and defensive. Including my mom. sigh 02 06 2009, 06 42 PM BRAZILIAN Location Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 565 posts, read 658,224 times Reputation 370 Quote Originally Posted by pigeonhole Why do so many Europeans smoke cigarettes ?

Because they are STUPID

(from an European who doesn’t smoke cigarettes, only reefers in my salad days…) Why stupids my friend? I am not european but I am cigarettes’ smoker and I don’t feel a stupid.
I think smoke cigarettes is less dangerous than
Drive high speed
Parachutes
Bung jump
Radical sports
Smell diesel smoke
Heavy traffic
Air pollution, water pollution
Live near nuclear plant
Walk at night (or day) some cities streets
Fire guns
Politicians
Political economist
Etc…, Etc…
How you can see, have many, many things very much dangerous in the world than Smoke Cigarette. 02 06 2009, 07 27 PM acrylic Location AZ 1,379 posts, read 2,303,392 times Reputation 620 Quote Originally Posted by BRAZILIAN Why stupids my friend? I am not european but I am cigarettes’ smoker and I don’t feel a stupid.
I think smoke cigarettes is less dangerous than
Drive high speed
Parachutes
Bung jump
Radical sports
Smell diesel smoke
Heavy traffic
Air pollution, water pollution
Live near nuclear plant
Walk at night (or day) some cities streets
Fire guns
Politicians
Political economist
Etc…, Etc…
How you can see, have many, many things very much dangerous in the world than Smoke Cigarette. Hmm. No.

You’ll see… it doesn’t per say affect you right away, but when it does, it’ll be a lot worse than sitting in heavy traffic, firing a gun, or anything to do with a politician. You’re just killing yourself slowly. 02 06 2009, 08 17 PM green mariner 23,822 posts, read 18,118,278 times Reputation 6667 I don’t know if this is the case for Europe as a whole, but I read about a case in Germany. It isn’t so much that Americans smoke less than Europeans, but in the USA, smoking in public is frowned upon, but in Europe, smoking in public is accepted, therefore, people will smoke in cafes and the restaurants. 02 06 2009, 08 35 PM K Luv Location Maryland not Murlin 6,878 posts, read 12,330,314 times Reputation 4085 Quote Originally Posted by califantastic Why do so many Europeans smoke cigarettes? Why are Californians so obsessed with health even though they live in one of the most polluted states?

Quote Originally Posted by califantastic Whenever I travel in Europe I am always amazed by the extremely high percentage of Europeans that smoke cigarettes. This seems strange to me considering that people in Europe tend to be better educated and more affluent that people in many other parts of the world. I would think that the more educated and affluent a person is the less likely they would be to smoke. But this is clearly not the case in Europe. The few times that I have been to Europe I didn’t notice an excessive amount of smokers, even when I was in France and Italy. Yes, I saw many smokers, but not any more than I see in the states. The reason why so many Europeans smoke is that it is relatively socially acceptable, and unlike the US, most Europeans do like to have the government tell them how to live, let alone some health nut. Besides, if two world wars, numerous smaller wars and countless uprisings/revolutions were waged in your front yard, back yard and living room, you might be a little bit more relaxed with the idea of smoking. Anyways, to answer your question it is a cultural thing just like how in the South (US) they love to eat excessive amounts of fried and greasy food.

Quote Originally Posted by califantastic A couple explanations I thought of Herd behavior (people in Europe smoke because everyone else does), Europeans do not care as much about their health, they are more concerned with enjoying themselves than living a long healthy life. Herd behavior? That is a pretty ignorant statement.

There is an old George Carlin joke that goes, Eat right, stay fit, and die anyways. A good friend of mine watched his dad pass away of cancer a few years ago. His old man was only in his fifties, eat healthy, played racquet ball a few times a week, never smoked, and blah blah blah. If you are concerned about the ill effects of smoking then I suggest that you do not live in a city. Aside from the general amount of pollutants in the air, car exhaust is just as carcinogenic as cigarets and diesel exhaust contains the most highly carcinogenic substance known to man. Just breathing city air is the equivalent of smoking at least half a pack a day.

Quote Originally Posted by califantastic If you have any opinion or insights into why such a high percentage of Europeans smoke please let me know your thoughts. My thoughts are that Europeans do not smoke any more than anyone else. It is a stereotype and a generalization. 02 06 2009, 10 52 PM orangeapple Location Southern California 2,579 posts, read 3,805,386 times Reputation 3112 There’s some overly defensive smokers in denial in this thread 02 06 2009, 11 03 PM Greatday Location Pinal County, Arizona 25,105 posts, read 21,606,132 times Reputation 4773 I might add that MANY Asians also smoke cigarettes. As do Russians. As do many in South America and Africa. Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

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Science ‘wrong’ in eu’s proposed e-cigarette law – health – 23 janua
ry 2014 – new scientist

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Fifteen prominent scientists who have investigated the health consequences of electronic cigarettes have accused European Union regulators of misinterpreting their results. The scientists say the EU aim is to draft an unjustifiably burdensome new law to regulate e cigarettes.

Their argument is made in a letter to the EU’s health commissioner Tonio Borg. The scientists state that if the newly amended Tobacco Products Directive becomes law as it stands which could happen as soon as April it will severely limit the scope for smokers of real cigarettes to give up or cut down by switching to e cigarettes, which contain nicotine but not the tobacco that contains tar and thousands of other substances harmful to health.

“If wisely regulated, e cigarettes have the potential to make cigarettes obsolete and save millions of lives worldwide,” the signatories say in the letter, which was also sent to members of the European Parliament, European Commission and the Council of Ministers the three bodies that will decide the fate of the directive. “Excessive regulation, on the contrary, will perpetuate the existing levels of smoking related disease, death and health care costs,” it continues, pointing out that smoking currently kills 700,000 Europeans each year.

The British Medical Association told New Scientist that longer trials are needed to learn more about the long term effects of e cigarettes. “Better regulation of e cigarettes is essential,” a spokesperson says. “Studies have shown that they are unreliable in the levels of nicotine they provide and there’s a lack of evidence regarding their safety.”

Ethical imperative

The signatories of the letter say regulation must be built on robust science. The cited errors relate to the strength of nicotine solutions allowed, the doses needed to match the nicotine “hit” from real cigarettes, an overstatement of the known dangers from nicotine and unwarranted assumptions that e cigarettes will become “gateway products”, tempting non smokers and young people to try real cigarettes.

As it stands, say the scientists, the draft would unnecessarily restrict nicotine content in the liquids that are vapourised in e cigarettes to deliver the drug to users when they suck on the devices.

Currently, the draft would restrict content to 20 milligrams of nicotine per millilitre of fluid, on the grounds that this matches the dose from a real cigarette over the same period of smoking. An estimated 20 to 30 per cent of e cigarette users prefer higher doses than this, and so could potentially return to smoking real cigarettes unless stronger e cigarettes are allowed, warn the researchers.

Outdated, overestimated

One of the signatories, Konstantinos Farsalinos of the University Hospital in Gasthuisberg in Leuven, Belgium, says his own research on e cigarettes was used to reach this figure, but that it has been misinterpreted. His work shows that 20 milligrams is less than half of what is required to match the output from a real cigarette, equivalent to roughly 50 milligrams per millilitre.

Much of the misinterpretation of results comes from outdated information and overestimation of the toxicity of nicotine, say the researchers.

The EU’s current assumption that 60 milligrams of nicotine is lethal is incorrect, they say, and dates from self experiments reported in a pharmacology textbook published in 1856. “This is not the case, and people have ingested doses 60 times higher, which only led to nausea and vomiting,” says the scientists’ letter. “Poisoning from tobacco, nicotine replacement medications or e cigarette liquid is extremely rare, and there is no risk of overdosing through inhalation,” they say.

Deep breath

Another gripe with the current draft of the Tobacco Products Directive is its insistence that electronic cigarettes deliver nicotine doses “consistently”. This is nonsensical, they say, because “vapers” the users of e cigarettes dictate for themselves how much nicotine they breathe in.

Research shows, for example, that individual users of the same electronic cigarette differ in nicotine intake by as much as 20 fold because they inhale different amounts at different rates.

The scientists also take issue with wording in the directive implying that there is strong evidence that e cigarettes lead to nicotine addiction and in turn the smoking of real cigarettes. “Existing data do not suggest that electronic cigarettes are having any such effects,” they go on to say that the evidence suggests the use of e cigarettes helps smokers of all ages reduce or give up smoking.

Dog’s breakfast

Supporters of e cigarettes argue that they could help smokers avoid disease and premature death. Proponents are lobbying either for further amendments to the draft directive to ease the restrictions, or for the e cigarettes component of the directive to be removed altogether and re drafted as an independent regulation.

“Otherwise, we’ll end up with a dog’s breakfast that will set the direction of e cigarette legislation for decades,” says Clive Bates, former director of UK public health charity Action on Smoking and Health (ASH), and a prominent campaigner for harm reduction through e cigarettes.

But time to amend the directive is limited because it will be read in the European Parliament in March. If passed, it could be rubber stamped into law by the Council of Ministers a month later.

The EU’s Environment, Public Health and Food Safety committee met 22 January in Brussels, Belgium, to consider the latest draft.

“My main issue with the directive is that it is unbalanced in its treatment of e cigarettes compared to tobacco products,” says signatory Chris Bullen of the University of Auckland in New Zealand. Last year Bullen headed a trial demonstrating that e cigarettes are at least as effective as nicotine patches in helping people quit smoking or cut down. “Proportionate regulation is what’s needed, sufficient to give consumers confidence in the quality, reliability and safety of e cigarettes,” he says.